Logs for #nikola for 2016-05-27

12:16:42 <KwBot> Demosthe1ex: 16:39:44 <ChrisWarrick> There’s an org-mode plugin available at https://plugins.getnikola.com/ if you want one.
12:16:51 <Demosthe1ex> KwBot: you're so nice ;]
12:18:10 <ChrisWarrick> he’s just a robot that says what people ask him to say
12:18:43 <Demosthe1ex> so i'm setting up a large post, i want it to be on the main page only as a teaser. i added the teaser marker into my file, and yet the full post is stillon the main index page.
12:18:47 <Demosthe1ex> ChrisWarrick: i know ;]
12:19:03 <ChrisWarrick> you’re looking for INDEX_TEASERS in conf.py.
12:19:07 <Demosthe1ex> its set true
12:19:21 <Demosthe1ex> do i need to rerun activate? build doesn't change anything
12:19:27 <Demosthe1ex> and its ".. TEASER_END
12:19:28 <Demosthe1ex> "
12:19:50 <ChrisWarrick> nikola build should do it
12:20:20 <Demosthe1ex> nope. so i'm trying to troubleshoot
12:20:22 <ChrisWarrick> are you using restructuredtext?
12:20:28 <Demosthe1ex> yep, .rst
12:20:37 <Demosthe1ex> i read the handbook, and it didn't take, thus i'm asking
12:20:39 <ChrisWarrick> Let’s try something unusual: nikola build -a
12:21:03 <ChrisWarrick> or, in other words, does a full rebuild fix things?
12:21:21 <Demosthe1ex> nope. -a didn't change either
12:21:45 <Demosthe1ex> on i'm v7.7.2
12:22:21 <ChrisWarrick> are you sure you are looking at the right file?
12:22:56 <Demosthe1ex> i run nikola build && nikola serve -b
12:23:02 <Demosthe1ex> and it pops up served locally in firefox
12:23:07 <Demosthe1ex> my main page is an index.
12:23:15 <Demosthe1ex> so it should be cut there
12:23:24 <ChrisWarrick> pastebin conf.py and your post
12:23:31 <ChrisWarrick> (why v7.7.2?)
12:23:34 <Demosthe1ex> i've run it a few times, and forced firefox to restart
12:23:47 <Demosthe1ex> as to version, isn't it normal to report what rev you're on?
12:24:08 <ChrisWarrick> v7.7.8 is the latest
12:25:44 <Demosthe1ex> http://pastebin.com/Z8iA1Ukq
12:25:55 <Demosthe1ex> yes, and the point of static sites is to not chase the upgrade curve?
12:26:09 <Demosthe1ex> i may have to update if it's a bug, but i assumed it was my error first
12:26:54 <ChrisWarrick> We recommend running the latest version to get bug fixes and new features.
12:27:13 <ChrisWarrick> pastebin the cache file for that post, please
12:27:31 <Demosthe1ex> of course.
12:27:35 <Demosthe1ex> actually, i just found it.
12:27:42 <Demosthe1ex> it was my dvcs error.
12:28:03 <Demosthe1ex> i assumed it was me, ;]
12:29:20 <ChrisWarrick> what was it, exactly?
12:29:35 <Demosthe1ex> i made the mistake earlier of making my post a page, and i relocated it but had an old working directory
12:29:44 <Demosthe1ex> dvcs user error is the root cause
12:29:56 <Demosthe1ex> http://adamssystems.nl/
12:30:02 <Demosthe1ex> you're welcome to view, it works fine ;]
12:30:10 <ChrisWarrick> nice
12:30:19 <ChrisWarrick> what DVCS is so user-hostile, btw?
12:30:56 <Demosthe1ex> even git can have an working dir that's a rev behind if you run the wrong commands
12:31:07 <Demosthe1ex> your workign dir isn't at the latest rev...
12:31:31 <ChrisWarrick> ah, you just run some command to checkout an old revision or the like
12:31:44 <ChrisWarrick> which is why I have the current revision in my shell prompt
12:32:19 <Demosthe1ex> yeah, like i said, my error
12:32:27 <ChrisWarrick> that’s fine
12:32:28 <Demosthe1ex> i didn't update my working dir and edited the wrong rev with the teaser tag
12:33:01 <ChrisWarrick> with the bootstrap3 blog theme, I recommend adding "Home" to the navbar
12:33:07 <Demosthe1ex> but i like nikola. static sites are what i need, i have a low volume site that's only there because... i have to have one with my domain ;]
12:33:25 <Demosthe1ex> there's like 3 pages, who needs a home ;]
12:33:35 <ChrisWarrick> no, it’s for usability
12:33:47 <Demosthe1ex> but i can see if i have many posts and  you want to return to the main page a home link at the top helps
12:34:06 <ChrisWarrick> it didn’t occur to me to click on the site title
12:35:04 <Demosthe1ex> good suggestion, added.
12:35:16 <ChrisWarrick> have fun with Nikola, and your mainframe business
12:35:20 <Demosthe1ex> heh ;]
12:35:35 <Demosthe1ex> yeah, i'm a relic
12:37:23 <ChrisWarrick> Speaking of relic, on a given day, how many IBM mainframes affect the life of an average person? Where is my nearest mainframe?
12:40:05 <ralsina> AIX!!!! Blast from the very very distant past!
12:40:31 <ralsina> ChrisWarrick: probably at your bank
12:41:05 <ChrisWarrick> considering my local branch might still be running dot-matrix printers…
12:41:27 <ralsina> of course. dot-matrix printers don't jam
12:41:56 <ralsina> if someone makes a inkjet printer that takes tractor-pull forms, I'd love to have ne
12:41:58 <ralsina> one*
12:42:34 * ralsina once consulted for a bank that had a S/360 app running emulated in a much newer mainframe. That was a 45 year old cobol thing
12:42:47 <Demosthe1ex> ChrisWarrick: itunes
12:42:52 <Demosthe1ex> ChrisWarrick: any apple product or store
12:42:59 <ChrisWarrick> Demosthe1ex: do they really
12:43:08 <Demosthe1ex> they have the largest SAP implementation on the planet and it's all aix on ibm hardware
12:43:18 <Demosthe1ex> largest... ON THE PLANET
12:43:28 <Demosthe1ex> and aix != mainframe.
12:43:30 <Demosthe1ex> thats z/OS
12:43:38 <Demosthe1ex> typically financial existing workloads
12:43:49 <Demosthe1ex> AIX is ibm's unix, which competes with other proprietary unixes
12:43:59 <Demosthe1ex> i've used linux longer than aix, since maybe 96...
12:44:06 <Demosthe1ex> and aix is far superior as a server.
12:44:10 <Demosthe1ex> *FAR*.
12:44:22 <ralsina> I used to manage some RS6000 with AIX (4.1 ?) http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/userdata/images/large/PRODPIC-16193.jpg
12:44:27 <Demosthe1ex> real maintenance, diagnostics, debugging, etc. for a high uptime system
12:44:34 <Demosthe1ex> ralsina: awesome! =]
12:44:43 <Demosthe1ex> i frequently work with aix 6 & 7 now
12:44:44 <ralsina> I even had the key
12:44:47 <Demosthe1ex> 8 is coming out soon
12:44:55 <Demosthe1ex> the platform is incredible now.
12:45:00 <ralsina> I remember that everything was weird. And SMIT
12:45:02 <Demosthe1ex> the white boxes were alright, but boat anchors
12:45:13 <Demosthe1ex> put bash on aix, you can't tell the difference
12:45:16 <Demosthe1ex> and smit is great.
12:45:22 <ralsina> like, hey, this is sendmail! But you configure it via this weird stanzas in a file you can only touch via this tool
12:45:31 <Demosthe1ex> if you worked on 4.3 i can put you on a latest aix system and you can administer it
12:45:43 <Demosthe1ex> sendmail is a bad example.
12:45:46 <Demosthe1ex> inittab is better.
12:45:47 <ralsina> then one day the disk crashed. As in "I could hear it from outside the server room"
12:46:07 <Demosthe1ex> instead of text editing inittab, they give you {ls,mk,rm,ch}itab
12:46:16 <Demosthe1ex> so you can programatically make changes
12:46:31 <Demosthe1ex> that's been around for AGES, and the linux people are only just now figuring out configuration management
12:46:39 <Demosthe1ex> "oh, we might want to run this on many servers, and not edit text files"
12:46:40 * ralsina is no longer a sysadmin, thank shiva
12:46:51 <Demosthe1ex> i'm the sysadm's sysadm.
12:46:54 <Demosthe1ex> a roaming expert
12:47:18 <Demosthe1ex> i travel the US, cananda, and EU performing services
12:47:32 <Demosthe1ex> its not just aix. it's project planning, architect, etc.
12:47:43 <ralsina> I used to have a company offshoring sysadmin work
12:47:50 <Demosthe1ex> when you need someone to walk in the door and take charge of deploying your whole application environment. ;]
12:48:00 <ralsina> then I decided I liked not doing that ;-)
12:48:07 <Demosthe1ex> no, i travel onsite.
12:48:31 <Demosthe1ex> i suppose in some ways i compete with ibm global services.
12:48:48 <Demosthe1ex> but they charge $300+ an hour, and i have more experience than the grunts they send you
12:48:59 <ralsina> well, ibm global services is dying a very very slow death
12:49:06 <Demosthe1ex> you know, they want 6 weeks and 3 engineers and i can do it in 2 with just me l;]
12:49:46 <ralsina> I have worked with them, don't want to ever do it again
12:50:09 <ChrisWarrick> each engineer sets things up from scratch on their own and the company picks the one that did their job best?
12:50:17 <ralsina> "oh, sure, you just bought 300K USD of hardware on our advice, now pay us 100K for consultants and... oh, well, that hardware we sold you sucks, get more"
12:50:55 <Demosthe1ex> ChrisWarrick: huh?
12:51:16 <Demosthe1ex> for my example, i meant that they would send out 3 engineers, one for HW, one for OS, and one for storage.
12:51:21 <Demosthe1ex> to setup a complete system
12:51:21 <ChrisWarrick> Demosthe1ex: how else would you explain 3 people takign 3× the amount of time you do?
12:51:42 <ralsina> ChrisWarrick: oh, you never worked with IBM GS guys :-)
12:51:54 <Demosthe1ex> but we're talking expensive high end hardware... i can't think of a server <$50k
12:51:59 <ChrisWarrick> ralsina: yeah, I haven’t
12:51:59 <ralsina> ChrisWarrick: usually, 1st thing they do is ask for a private room
12:52:04 <Demosthe1ex> spending $10k on installation and migration isn't uncommon
12:52:17 <ralsina> then, they start charging you. And they don't promise deadlines
12:52:18 <Demosthe1ex> maybe we're unclear on terms.
12:52:27 <Demosthe1ex> ralsina: i have deadlines and tigh contracts ;]
12:52:34 <Demosthe1ex> when i say " a server "
12:52:47 <ralsina> Demosthe1ex: exactly, that's why I hate GS. Everything was open ended
12:52:52 <Demosthe1ex> i mean something mission critical and in the >$50k/hr of downtime range.
12:53:05 <Demosthe1ex> not "huur hurr i setup a linux box on whitebox hardware and its mah survur."
12:53:10 <ChrisWarrick> I totally understand that.
12:53:30 <ChrisWarrick> hey, don’t scold my little $6.15/mo VPS!
12:53:33 <Demosthe1ex> its like saying "i'm in shipping and logistics" when you have a toyota pickup truck instead of a fleet of peterbilts
12:53:49 <Demosthe1ex> scale matters.
12:54:15 * ralsina used to manage the inventory servers for Kuehne&Nagel (laaarge logistics company). Worst IT ever.
12:54:57 <ralsina> I taught them to use a version control system (svn at the time). They proceeded to put the repo in a windows share and work all in the same copy.
12:55:13 <ChrisWarrick> oh, the horrors
12:55:26 <ralsina> The corporate world is so full of idiots I sometimes wonder how the world doesn't explode.
12:55:57 <ralsina> ChrisWarrick: the weekend phonecalls "THIS SVN THING IS CRAP ALL FILES ARE LOCKED"
12:56:23 <ralsina> They would shout across the open floor building "I am opening whatever.foo NOONE TOUCH IT"
12:56:37 <ChrisWarrick> for a more recent story, it took me at least 5 minutes to get `git status` out of a Windows dev some time ago
12:56:58 * ralsina looks for his favourite photo of a corporate datacenter
12:57:16 <ChrisWarrick> s/ some time ago//
12:59:53 <ralsina> ok, can't find it. Basically and old IBM server was missing 3 HDDs in the RAID bay
13:00:02 <ralsina> and it was overheating becaue it was crap
13:00:22 <ralsina> so, when they worked on the racks, they kept the coffee mug INSIDE THE SERVER
13:00:42 <ralsina> I have a picture, but who knows where it is, it was long ago :-)
13:22:05 <gour> ralsina: nikola's design & workflow is way ahead of any competition. congrats!
13:22:23 <ralsina> gour: probably not, but thanks anyway ;-)
13:23:05 <gour> ralsina: give me some contrary example ;)
13:23:06 <ChrisWarrick> ralsina: well, show me another SSG that comes with so many nice things out of the box
13:24:00 <ralsina> ChrisWarrick, gour: acrylamid?
13:24:05 <gour> i did try Pelican few days ago, but the workflow is not very close...Nikola's way of doing things is so smooth
13:24:12 * ralsina has never used acrylamid to be honest
13:24:46 <ChrisWarrick> me neither
13:25:03 <gour> ralsina: i did play with acrylamid before Nikola and, iirc, suggested few things from it's feature set, but, one thing - not so actively developed and, iirc, not so feature rich
13:25:16 <ralsina> I saw a post the other day about how having to choose the title before you start writing adds friction. It's an interesting point because it's right but ... how else could it work?
13:25:39 <ralsina> Also, Nikola is sadly way too slow.
13:25:51 <ralsina> I hate that hugo is so much faster at some things
13:26:10 * ChrisWarrick didn’t succeed in setting up hugo
13:26:13 <ralsina> I want to try Nikola on pyston, who knows, it may be faster
13:27:15 <gour> ralsina: just before migrating back to Nikola i was using Hugo - strange that ChrisWarrick couldn't setup it - but it's only fast - Nikola has more features ;)
13:27:31 <ChrisWarrick> gour: I was getting no output.
13:27:36 <gour> ralsina: have you tried Nikola under Nuitka?
13:28:08 <gour> ChrisWarrick: strange, Hugo's setup is quite straightforward, single executable etc.
13:30:16 <gour> ChrisWarrick: did this http://gohugo.io/overview/quickstart/ worked for you or you had another problem related to your benchmark?
13:31:13 <ChrisWarrick> gour: empty pages
13:31:58 <gour> ChrisWarrick: if you have your 'setup ready, i can build it here
13:32:02 <ChrisWarrick> gour: they don’t ship with themes, but I had issues with those
13:32:22 <gour> otoh, not having other usage of Go, I gave up on it and will try to learn/do some python instead
13:33:03 <gour> ChrisWarrick: one just have to pull themes into ../themes via git and pass theme-name when invoking 'hugo -t themename'
13:33:17 <ChrisWarrick> gour: it somehow was broken back then
13:34:14 <gour> quickstart explains it all, and it's strange considering there are quite some hugo users out there, so it's worth testing it for comparison
13:34:24 <ChrisWarrick> or just badly documented
13:34:56 <gour> quickstart is, imho, step-by-step guide
13:36:24 <gour> iow, if you're capable writing code, then setup should be no problem ;)
13:37:57 <ChrisWarrick> got 1.56 seconds on my VPS
13:38:55 <gour> and nikola ?
13:40:38 <ChrisWarrick> 8.9 seconds for clean, 4.0 for rebuild
13:41:26 <ChrisWarrick> make that 10 and 5.1, took wrong figure out of time
13:43:39 <gour> how many pages?
13:44:53 <ChrisWarrick> gour: https://chriswarrick.com/blog/2015/07/23/ssg-speed-test/
13:45:29 <ChrisWarrick> gour: I kept the old files (but I used a different machine with a lot of background processes and didn’t do multiple runs)
13:45:55 <gour> ChrisWarrick: no matter what is today's result, i'l lstay with nikola :-D
13:46:21 <gour> (and rst)
13:47:05 <gour> i'l also try to take a look at Pelican's own comment system since it would enable me to get rid of hashover (and php)
13:47:31 <ChrisWarrick> that’s not Pelican’s
13:47:50 <gour> yes, Pelican has it's own which does not need php
13:47:56 <ChrisWarrick> that’s yet another plugin that facilitates the awful mailto:-based “comments”
13:48:08 <gour> ohh, you mean Pelican's comment system?
13:48:17 <ChrisWarrick> there was one for Jekyll, too
13:48:30 <gour> yes
13:48:37 <gour> have you tried hashover?
13:48:47 <ChrisWarrick> I like disqus
13:49:00 <ChrisWarrick> but hashover looks fine from the outside
13:49:19 <gour> it has simpler setup than isso...i'm trying to close disqus account :-) 
13:50:57 <gour> was not aware of the Pelican's "internal" method for comments...maybe hashover is than better for non-disqus solution
13:51:00 <ChrisWarrick> IMO those “comment” systems are a large hassle for both parties: the site author has to copy-paste text from their e-mail to some file and redeploy their site, and the user needs to have an e-mail client setup
13:52:08 <gour> if that's the case, i agree...will try hashover-2
13:54:15 <ralsina> I think I could implement one of those "static comments" thing using a shortcode
13:54:47 * gour --> afk. bbl
13:54:48 <ralsina> {{ comments some-id }} then reads comments/some-id/* as plain text and puts them there
13:55:00 <ChrisWarrick> depends on how hacky you feel, you might just add a form to post.tmpl and manually attach comments via copy-pasting into your rst file
13:55:04 <ralsina> sounds too stupid to be correct
13:55:16 <ChrisWarrick> that’s actually an okay idea