Logs for #nikola for 2015-05-14

09:51:57 * gour is wondering if there is something that Nikola can't do when it comes to static-site-generators
09:59:55 <Aeyoun> gour: intellectual question? or do you have an actual problem that needs solving?
10:01:30 <gour> Aeyoun: probably just reflection...some time ago i was considering to use Hugo for all my sites, but there were few items missing from the list of requirements. now i realize Nikola has them all
10:02:40 <Aeyoun> gour: do both. build your site with Nikola and build it with Hugo. Report back on what Hugo did better than Nikola. That feedback can be used to further improve Nikola. ;-)
10:03:31 <Aeyoun> gour: actually, just get your site going. the tool can be adapted, fixed, or even swapped out entirely later.
10:15:58 <gour> Aeyoun: well, Hugo is very fast. othh, nikola has hyphenation support, very good asciidoc support and, lastly, coil or web-based editor...all those (important) features are missing in hugo
10:17:54 <gour> hugo might offer more flexibility for URLs and some other features, but i believe Nikola is pretty close here as well
10:18:20 <Aeyoun> gour: Fast really does not matter. It’s not like it affects your visitors in any way that you spend an extra second generating the site. You can even perform that task on another machine to not waste your own time.
10:18:45 <Aeyoun> gour: What kind of address flexibility do you need? —and why?
10:19:12 <gour> Aeyoun: well, author of Hugo was apprarently frustrated with some ssg-s requiring several minutes to build his sites
10:20:28 <gour> e.g. http://gohugo.io/content/types/ http://gohugo.io/content/archetypes/ which might be useful when building larger sites
10:21:03 <gour> or this one http://gohugo.io/taxonomies/overview/
10:21:35 <gour> but i'm more in favour of having hyphenation and coil
10:22:09 * Aeyoun have not really looked at Coil
10:22:44 <gour> i've a need to allow non-savvy users to write posts using browser
10:24:37 <Aeyoun> Hyphenation is presentational. Better left to CSS. https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/CSS/hyphens
10:25:19 <Aeyoun> *requires lang attribute for page, content in a supported language, and a user with a supported browser
10:26:07 <gour> heh, many reqs ;)
10:30:09 <Aeyoun> gour: it has less drawbacks than littering the source with soft-hyphens
10:31:12 <Aeyoun> gour: try using inline-search in different browsers to match a string containing an invisible soft-hyphen. the result is discouraging. if I remember correctly, neither baidu nor yandex search engines understand soft hyphens. users  who copy text from your page gets hidden characters that cause them other problems.
10:31:20 <gour> i can agree with that
10:31:25 <Aeyoun> the css/browser-provided solution don’t have these problems.
10:33:33 <Aeyoun> gour: you can’t have code-examples or name of commands in your texts if they contain invisible junk-characters in them, for example.
10:34:32 <Aeyoun> I wrote a blog post about compatibility problems with soft-hyphens back in the day. can’t find it now.
10:34:48 * Aeyoun have been a terrible fool and deleted his blog every two–three years and “started fresh”
10:35:10 <gour> :-)
10:36:03 <Aeyoun> gour: look, I’ve been battling soft-hyphens for years already. :P https://searchcode.com/codesearch/view/8395951/
10:36:49 <Aeyoun> https://readable-email.org/list/www-style/topic/css3-text-4-2-hyphenation
10:39:23 <ralsina>   Aeyoun we dont soft-hyphen code :-)
10:40:18 <Aeyoun> ralsina: posts.py line 1026
10:41:06 <ralsina> oh, well, we shouldn't
10:41:20 <ralsina> I thought I had changed it so it wouldn't
10:41:29 <Aeyoun> ralsina: how else would this feature work? :P
10:42:47 <ralsina> Aeyoun: just by skipping pre elements and others
10:43:15 <Aeyoun> ralsina: it has to insert soft-hyphens at "break point options" in the text, and thus introduce the compatibility problems.
10:43:16 <ralsina> Aeyoun: check around line 1006
10:44:04 <ralsina> we only insert them in p span and li, only if no parent is pre, and if no parent has a math class (to avoid breaking mathjax)
10:45:18 <ralsina> /me takes kid to school now
10:45:26 <ralsina> see you guys later
10:45:50 <Aeyoun> ralsina: kbd, code, samp, mark, math, data, ruby elements?
10:46:29 <Aeyoun> even assuming the authors use these semantics instead of just strong or em to separate his one-line code example/file-name/etc.
10:57:02 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] Aeyoun pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/vUy92
10:57:02 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/master 7d1d7fd Daniel Aleksandersen: Skip more tags when hyphenating
10:58:06 <Aeyoun> Should help anyone technical enough to use semantic markup, at least.
11:08:30 -travis-ci:#nikola- getnikola/nikola#5023 (master - 7d1d7fd : Daniel Aleksandersen): The build is still failing.
11:08:31 -travis-ci:#nikola- Change view: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/compare/691fc612dcfc...7d1d7fd5fd36
11:08:32 -travis-ci:#nikola- Build details: http://travis-ci.org/getnikola/nikola/builds/62533404
12:18:00 <ralsina> Aeyoun: all our markups use pre for code
12:18:19 <ralsina> Those doing HTML manually hopefully know better or have not enabled hyphenation :-)
12:20:55 <Aeyoun> ralsina: well, you still have `inline code`.
12:21:14 <ralsina> yeah
12:21:21 <ralsina> that would need checking
12:51:48 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] Kwpolska pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/vUS0x
12:51:48 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/master e89101f Chris Warrick: remove debug print (cc @felixfontein)...
12:58:42 -travis-ci:#nikola- getnikola/nikola#5024 (master - e89101f : Chris Warrick): The build is still failing.
12:58:43 -travis-ci:#nikola- Change view: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/compare/7d1d7fd5fd36...e89101fc23fb
12:58:43 -travis-ci:#nikola- Build details: http://travis-ci.org/getnikola/nikola/builds/62544258
13:27:22 -travis-ci:#nikola- Invariant build by Chris Warrick: The build passed. See http://travis-ci.org/getnikola/invariant-builds/builds/62547161.
13:57:40 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] ralsina created prettier-html (+1 new commit): http://git.io/vUS5d
13:57:40 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/prettier-html 67ebf21 Roberto Alsina: make lxml reformat HTML
13:58:25 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] ralsina opened pull request #1723: make lxml reformat HTML (master...prettier-html) http://git.io/vUSdY
13:59:03 <ralsina> Aeyoun, ChrisWarrick : I suspect you guys are ging to love https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/pull/1723
13:59:06 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] ralsina pushed 1 new commit to prettier-html: http://git.io/vUSdg
13:59:06 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/prettier-html d116811 Roberto Alsina: updated changelog
13:59:31 <ChrisWarrick> fancy
13:59:50 <ralsina> removes all the wacky whitespace we get from templates' blank lines and such
13:59:55 <ralsina> fies indentations
13:59:58 <ralsina> fixes
14:00:41 <ralsina> Aeyoun: may even make it so you don't need to run tidy
14:05:02 -travis-ci:#nikola- getnikola/nikola#5025 (prettier-html - 67ebf21 : Roberto Alsina): The build passed.
14:05:03 -travis-ci:#nikola- Change view: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/commit/67ebf2187761
14:05:03 -travis-ci:#nikola- Build details: http://travis-ci.org/getnikola/nikola/builds/62551491
14:17:50 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] Aeyoun pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/vU9fk
14:17:50 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/master 3cf5039 Daniel Aleksandersen: Exclude html meta robots exclusion directives from sitemaps
14:18:33 <Aeyoun> ralsina: can you have it sort attributes too? really improves compression rates.
14:18:42 <ralsina> Aeyoun: I suspect not
14:22:08 <ChrisWarrick> sort attributes, how/
14:23:38 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] Kwpolska deleted existing-post-event at d33a023: http://git.io/vU9UN
14:24:16 <Aeyoun> ChrisWarrick: <a href="#" title="this"></a><a href="#" title="this"></a><a href="#" title="this"></a><a href="#" title="this"></a> compresses better than <a href="#" title="this"></a><a title="this" href="#"></a><a href="#" title="this"></a><a title="this" href="#"></a>
14:24:31 <ChrisWarrick> makes sense
14:25:01 <Aeyoun> tidy5 does this. I set the four preset tidy5 filters in Nikola to do this.
14:25:11 <Aeyoun> *tidy5 optionally does this
14:25:40 <Aeyoun> manually sorting them in lxml would probably be painfully slow.
14:25:52 -travis-ci:#nikola- getnikola/nikola#5029 (master - 3cf5039 : Daniel Aleksandersen): The build passed.
14:25:53 -travis-ci:#nikola- Change view: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/compare/e89101fc23fb...3cf503948bf9
14:25:53 -travis-ci:#nikola- Build details: http://travis-ci.org/getnikola/nikola/builds/62554038
14:25:54 <ralsina> Aeyoun: looks like actually lxml CAN do that
14:25:56 <ralsina> Aeyoun: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14917943/python-lxml-enforcing-an-specific-order-for-attributes
14:26:04 <ralsina> the "OrderedDict" answer
14:26:51 <ralsina> hmmm only when building your own elements. so no.
14:27:17 <Aeyoun> we could go through the three and manually sort everything. but as I said, probably very slow.
14:28:19 <Aeyoun> I saw a blog post a few years back taking alexa top # site’s front pages and only changing the attribute sorting order. the compression gains were significant.
14:32:55 -travis-ci:#nikola- getnikola/nikola#5030 (master - 83c8254 : Chris Warrick): The build passed.
14:32:56 -travis-ci:#nikola- Change view: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/compare/3cf503948bf9...83c82544b5f9
14:32:56 -travis-ci:#nikola- Build details: http://travis-ci.org/getnikola/nikola/builds/62554742
14:37:58 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] ralsina pushed 2 new commits to fix-1688: http://git.io/vU9qj
14:37:58 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/fix-1688 b14ab78 Roberto Alsina: merged master
14:37:58 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/fix-1688 0882356 Roberto Alsina: describe limitations
14:50:09 -travis-ci:#nikola- getnikola/nikola#5032 (fix-1688 - 0882356 : Roberto Alsina): The build passed.
14:50:10 -travis-ci:#nikola- Change view: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/compare/ae351cea28c5...08823564b2ca
14:50:10 -travis-ci:#nikola- Build details: http://travis-ci.org/getnikola/nikola/builds/62557074
15:15:31 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] ralsina pushed 1 new commit to fix-1688: http://git.io/vU9EA
15:15:31 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/fix-1688 7b6a984 Roberto Alsina: Make post's representation change when posts change
15:15:46 <ChrisWarrick> Aeyoun: next time you are bored, you could sort the default templates, should be helpful already
15:27:47 -travis-ci:#nikola- getnikola/nikola#5034 (fix-1688 - 7b6a984 : Roberto Alsina): The build was broken.
15:27:48 -travis-ci:#nikola- Change view: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/compare/08823564b2ca...7b6a98430fba
15:27:48 -travis-ci:#nikola- Build details: http://travis-ci.org/getnikola/nikola/builds/62562626
15:35:33 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] ralsina pushed 1 new commit to fix-1688: http://git.io/vU96c
15:35:33 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/fix-1688 25e8ef2 Roberto Alsina: py3 fix
15:43:31 -travis-ci:#nikola- getnikola/nikola#5035 (fix-1688 - 25e8ef2 : Roberto Alsina): The build is still failing.
15:43:32 -travis-ci:#nikola- Change view: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/compare/7b6a98430fba...25e8ef289b1a
15:43:32 -travis-ci:#nikola- Build details: http://travis-ci.org/getnikola/nikola/builds/62565514
16:21:38 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] ralsina pushed 1 new commit to fix-1688: http://git.io/vUHJf
16:21:38 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/fix-1688 12a23ef Roberto Alsina: fix unicode thingies
16:34:51 -travis-ci:#nikola- getnikola/nikola#5037 (fix-1688 - 12a23ef : Roberto Alsina): The build was fixed.
16:34:52 -travis-ci:#nikola- Change view: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/compare/25e8ef289b1a...12a23efbbb5d
16:34:52 -travis-ci:#nikola- Build details: http://travis-ci.org/getnikola/nikola/builds/62572765
18:53:04 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] Kwpolska created a11y (+2 new commits): http://git.io/vUQC0
18:53:04 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/a11y d6187e8 Chris Warrick: adapt navbar for a11y...
18:53:04 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/a11y 50d14da Chris Warrick: rewrite the demo post -- `here` links considered harmful...
20:18:37 <ralsina> crazy idea: a thing that checks your config, and reports where it differs from default
20:18:51 <ralsina> and we use it to know how to change options
20:19:41 <ralsina> so, if everyone uses PRETTY_URLs we change it for v8
21:57:14 <Aeyoun> ralsina: see postconf
21:57:34 <Aeyoun> http://www.postfix.org/postconf.1.html
21:59:56 <Aeyoun> -d for defaults (instead of set values), -n for set values (non-defaults in other words as default are always unset), and -d for everything set and default (all values that are actually used – custom and default)