01:37:47 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] felixfontein pushed 1 new commit to translated-paths: https://git.io/vixBm 01:37:47 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/translated-paths e05e806 Felix Fontein: Getting rid of _force_source. 01:42:19 -travis-ci:#nikola- getnikola/nikola#7608 (translated-paths - e05e806 : Felix Fontein): The build passed. 01:42:20 -travis-ci:#nikola- Change view: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/compare/ceea3d0266d6...e05e806b09b8 01:42:21 -travis-ci:#nikola- Build details: https://travis-ci.org/getnikola/nikola/builds/162666230 01:46:53 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- [nikola] felixfontein pushed 1 new commit to translated-paths: https://git.io/vixBV 01:46:53 -GitHub[nikola]:#nikola- nikola/translated-paths 14ba726 Felix Fontein: Computing paths once. 01:51:47 -travis-ci:#nikola- getnikola/nikola#7609 (translated-paths - 14ba726 : Felix Fontein): The build passed. 01:51:48 -travis-ci:#nikola- Change view: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/compare/e05e806b09b8...14ba72675902 01:51:48 -travis-ci:#nikola- Build details: https://travis-ci.org/getnikola/nikola/builds/162667248 12:19:11 <ToApolytoXaos> greetings folks. 12:23:27 <ToApolytoXaos> ChrisWarrick: is Nikola inspired by Django or is it being implemented *based* on Django's structured scheme? 13:30:19 <ToApolytoXaos> it would be really nice if there was a page in nikola's website with a bit of history, that is how it all started by ralsina, what problems it tried to solve back then, what initial problems were solved that later on became obstacles for further implementation and had to redesign it...such things. 14:39:22 <ChrisWarrick> ToApolytoXaos: Absolutely no relation to Django 14:40:49 <ToApolytoXaos> ChrisWarrick: for some reason, it resembles in a way 14:41:40 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: well, I knew about Django back then 14:42:01 <ralsina> And the "nikola console" command is totally inspired by it 14:42:12 <ToApolytoXaos> ralsina: I knew it! ^_^ 14:42:26 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: but nothing intentional other than console 14:42:26 <ToApolytoXaos> and the conf.py resembles settings.py 14:42:48 <ralsina> conf.py is python because in my previous project I used json for config and hated it 14:43:15 <ToApolytoXaos> yeah baby, I'm not the only one who dislikes json! :D hahaha 14:43:30 <ralsina> I love json, it just sucks as a config format 14:43:37 <ToApolytoXaos> that's what I meant 14:43:56 <ToApolytoXaos> I use it for node.js projects and can easily get confused with my own settings lol 14:44:09 <ralsina> a few weeks ago I did some attempt at switching to another config format and it was awful, so we're stuck with python 14:44:25 <ToApolytoXaos> Python will do ralsina 14:44:37 <ralsina> There are a ton of things we can't do because it's python 14:44:43 <ToApolytoXaos> like? 14:44:50 <ralsina> like updating settings when we deprecate them 14:45:16 <ralsina> there's hundreds of LOC in nikola handling old settings internally because we can't just set the new one in conf.py 14:45:16 <ToApolytoXaos> updating in what way? by get rid of them? 14:45:47 <ralsina> Suppose I want "AVOID_FOO" to become "USE_FOO" 14:45:54 <ToApolytoXaos> yes 14:46:08 <ralsina> if I could modify conf.py it's easy, I just read it, if there's a AVOID_FOO rewrite it with USE_FOO 14:46:18 <ralsina> Now, all I can do is warn the user to change it himself 14:46:25 <ToApolytoXaos> true 14:46:29 <ralsina> and if he doesn't, then later on it will break 14:46:41 <ToApolytoXaos> OK 14:48:34 <ToApolytoXaos> so you basically want to do the whole upgrading thing behind the scenes and hide it from the user? 14:51:41 <ralsina> No, I would just tell the user and ask before updating 14:52:16 <KwBot> [nikola] ralsina assigned issue #2508 to tritium21: ReCommonMark Compiler https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/issues/2508 14:54:40 <ToApolytoXaos> ralsina: that's how Django is doing so when a new version can break compatibility with the next major release. 14:55:08 <ToApolytoXaos> certain steps are given in advanced to migrate certain parts of code and then they get removed after 2 major version releases 14:55:15 <ralsina> So is Nikola, I would just prefer to offer the user a chance to "just fix it" 14:55:22 <ToApolytoXaos> bingo 14:55:59 <ToApolytoXaos> that's the most reasonable feedback you could provide to your users 15:03:54 <ndim> ralsina: Would a bit more flexible manner of mapping input files to posts/pages/assets/whatever and to output filenames and urls be desirable for Nikola? I.e. would you accept a pull request in case one materialized? 15:04:07 <ndim> 100% backward compatible of course. 15:04:26 <ralsina> ndim: there is one currently proposed, I think 15:04:44 <ndim> Oh nice. 15:04:48 <ralsina> ndim: honestly, I don't see why not, as long as it doesn't make things complicated 15:04:50 <ndim> I'll go have a look for that. 15:05:21 <ralsina> For example, the current proposal allows posts/pages to say where they want to be placed, which I think makes things complicated for no reason 15:06:08 <ralsina> Because if you are going to have the post source in posts/foo.rst and want it deployed in output/bar/bat.html ... well, how is anyone going to find the source if there is a problem with that URL? 15:06:28 <ralsina> Specially since you can just put it in posts/bar/bat.rst 15:06:43 <ndim> Good URLs don't change, and the UI for putting blog posts into posts/2016/09/26/this-sucks/{index.md,supplemental-image.pdf,extra-image.png} is a bit unclear and confusing compared to posts/2016-09-26-this-sucks-less/{index.md,supplemental-image.pdf,extra-image.png} 15:06:57 <ralsina> But if there's an explanation of a use case that will be improved, and it doesn't make my life supporting users the next N years hell, why not. 15:07:17 <ndim> Of course. 15:07:39 <ralsina> ndim: for images, you can just use posts as an images folder 15:08:04 <ndim> Might be a foo.c source file or whatever. 15:08:07 <ralsina> I *think* an option that makes new_post put things in yyyy/mm/dd is trivial to do 15:08:31 <ndim> The problem is that makes it difficult to see your blog posts when you go into posts/ 15:08:33 <ralsina> ndim: I'd need to see a proposal explaining how that's supposed to work, rather than a PR 15:09:04 <ndim> You just see a few 20{13,14,15,16} folders and have no idea about the actual posts hidden away in the directory tree. 15:09:05 <ralsina> So, you would prefer all the sources in a flat folder and output in a per-day hierarchy? 15:09:14 <ndim> I think it should be possible to add a relatively simple regexp matching for the input and format string for the output. 15:09:29 <ndim> The place for that already is in the conf.py 15:09:36 <ralsina> regexp... ouch 15:09:39 <ndim> Just the internals need to change a bit. 15:09:50 <ralsina> You need to change exactly one function 15:09:53 <ralsina> IIUC 15:10:00 * ralsina goes look for it 15:10:01 <ndim> I think so. 15:11:12 <ndim> Good. I'll take a shot at a clean implementation for myself tonight or in the next few days. If it is clean, compatible, and works, I'll migrate my site to it and test it, while refining that proposal. 15:11:13 <ralsina> post.destination_path 15:11:54 <ndim> The interesting question is whether there are places elsewhere in the code which assume a certain relation between the source path and destination_path. 15:12:30 <ndim> This places would need to be fixed to go through the new translation layer instead of just assuming things. 15:12:52 <ndim> I think I have the basic architecture in my head. 15:13:17 <ralsina> And the folder in destination_path comes from Post.folder which is set by ... scan_posts.py 15:13:41 <ralsina> Currently, scan_posts just takes the path of the source. IF you make it do something different, everything else should fall in place 15:14:44 <ralsina> But the important thing is not the implementation, it's designing the UX 15:14:57 <ndim> ralsina: Thanks. I have to leave for a bit, but I'll be back. This is the last thing which prevents me from just using Nikola. Pelican looked really nice with respect to input/output name mapping, but doit and the multilanguage site being built in have me strongly wanting to use Nikola. And get the 3minute+ Jekyll/Octopress build times back down to something more like 3 seconds. 15:15:19 <ralsina> I can fix broken implementations, I can't fix broken ideas to implement :-) 15:15:32 <ralsina> ndim: sure, keep me posted 15:15:54 <ndim> Will do. 15:27:06 <ToApolytoXaos> ralsina: personally, I don't like the way it looks; that is, <year>-<month>-<day>-<post-title> 15:27:20 <ToApolytoXaos> it has already consumed 11 characters for an unnecessary reason 15:30:06 <ndim> ToApolytoXaos: You do not have to use that. 15:30:38 <ToApolytoXaos> what about SEO? 15:30:56 <ToApolytoXaos> as far as I know, Google displays 50 to 60 characters of title length 15:31:44 <ToApolytoXaos> so if you use a humongous URI that its title gets truncated by crawlers to 50-60 characters, aesthetically it would be a mismatch 15:33:13 <ToApolytoXaos> so, less than 55 characters for title tag would be the ideal for engines like Google and *should* match the URI for memorization purposes 15:34:00 <ndim> Google has no issue finding http://n-dimensional.de/blog/2012/05/01/wd-mybook-live-data-rescue/ 15:34:09 <ndim> Why should they? 15:34:20 <ndim> I'll be back in an hour or two. 15:34:41 <ndim> Those 10 additional characters in the URL - why should they change anything? 15:37:27 <ChrisWarrick> ToApolytoXaos: [citation needed] 15:37:40 <ToApolytoXaos> ChrisWarrick: https://moz.com/learn/seo/title-tag 15:38:17 <ChrisWarrick> ToApolytoXaos: And who the fuck are moz.com? 15:39:17 <ToApolytoXaos> one of the best Digital Marketing companies that exist out there that have helped large Inc. 500 companies to set the bar higher due to the respect to standards 15:40:27 <ChrisWarrick> gibberish 15:40:35 <ToApolytoXaos> whatever makes you happy ChrisWarrick 15:41:07 <ToApolytoXaos> I just expressed my personal opinion and shouldn't be taken for granted. 16:05:17 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: but that's the title tag, what does it have to do with URL length? 16:06:10 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: also, that naming scheme comes from the blogger import, you can use whatever you want 16:12:41 <ToApolytoXaos> obviously I was completely misunderstood, but anyway; I will do my best to keep my mouth shut next time. 16:15:12 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: hmmm I just don't understand. The title tag is the title in your page, it should not be long, as long as you don't use really long title. 16:16:00 <ralsina> Specifically, I have no idea what this part means: 16:16:02 <ralsina> [12:27:06] <ToApolytoXaos> ralsina: personally, I don't like the way it looks; that is, <year>-<month>-<day>-<post-title> 16:16:02 <ralsina> [12:27:20] <ToApolytoXaos> it has already consumed 11 characters for an unnecessary reason 16:16:02 <ralsina> [12:30:06] <ndim> ToApolytoXaos: You do not have to use that. 16:16:02 <ralsina> [12:30:38] <ToApolytoXaos> what about SEO? 16:16:02 <ralsina> [12:30:56] <ToApolytoXaos> as far as I know, Google displays 50 to 60 characters of title length 16:27:45 <ToApolytoXaos> what about the rest of the lines? 16:28:12 <ToApolytoXaos> regards to what is ideal for engines like Google et al? 16:33:50 <ToApolytoXaos> ralsina: what I have tried to explain and miserably failed it's explained by Google itself here https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/www.google.com/en//webmasters/docs/search-engine-optimization-starter-guide.pdf 16:34:35 <ralsina> I have no idea if google dislikes long URLs, I just suppose we were all co discuss thatonfused about you using the title tag t 16:34:46 <ralsina> I have no idea if google dislikes long URLs, I just suppose we were all confused about you using the title tag to discuss that 16:34:52 <ralsina> Sorry, messed up 1st typing :-) 16:35:30 <ToApolytoXaos> title tag and a URL link *should* much but not necessarily 16:35:45 <ralsina> Nikola does match the title and the URL 16:35:45 <ToApolytoXaos> if they do though, it's best for website's rankings 16:36:02 <ToApolytoXaos> how about a humongous title tag? 16:36:13 <ToApolytoXaos> doesn't it trancate it like how blogspot is doing? 16:36:17 <ralsina> Then you get a humongous URL, but the solution is to not use a very long title 16:36:30 <ralsina> Nikola doesn't truncate anything AFAIK 16:36:39 <ToApolytoXaos> I see 16:37:07 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: for example: http://ralsina.me/weblog/posts/de-san-isiddro-a-malta-y-de-vuelta.html 16:37:18 <ralsina> is that very long? I don't know. The URL and the title match 16:37:20 <ToApolytoXaos> that's not so big 16:38:16 <ralsina> http://ralsina.me/weblog/posts/reporte-de-viaje-13-trepar-la-torre-eiffel-por-fuera-solo-phineas-y-ferb-nosotros-por-adentro-y-gracias.html 16:38:39 <ToApolytoXaos> OK, that's humongous lol 16:38:44 <ToApolytoXaos> how about alias? 16:38:52 <ToApolytoXaos> does Nikola support them? 16:38:55 <ralsina> Sure 16:39:00 <ralsina> well, in a way 16:39:06 <ralsina> you can use the REDIRECTS option 16:39:15 <ralsina> BUT, real aliases have to be done on the webserver level 16:40:11 <ToApolytoXaos> isn't slag responsive for generating the post/page file? 16:42:12 <ralsina> slug? yes 16:42:18 <ToApolytoXaos> lovely 16:42:24 <ToApolytoXaos> let me double validate something then 16:42:32 <ralsina> If yuo want to make a shorter-nicer URL, just change the slug 16:44:10 <ToApolytoXaos> OK, I have double checked something 16:44:35 <ToApolytoXaos> is it possible to allow the user to set the slag of his choice upon creating a new post? 16:44:40 <ralsina> Sure 16:44:44 <ralsina> Just edit the file 16:44:58 <ToApolytoXaos> I meant with the new_post command 16:45:26 <ralsina> Well, only in the sense that the title you give will be used for it 16:45:28 <ToApolytoXaos> to optionally allow the user to modify the slag curing initial creation of a new post 16:46:16 <ralsina> I don't see how that's valuable 16:46:46 <ralsina> I mean, you want the slug to be "my-trip-to-london"? THen if your post's title is "My Trip To London" that's what it will be. 16:47:01 <ToApolytoXaos> I think you didn't understand me 16:47:06 <ToApolytoXaos> let me tell you what I did ralsina 16:47:08 <ralsina> Maybe if you can give me an example 16:47:14 <ToApolytoXaos> I have created a humongous new post 16:47:29 <ToApolytoXaos> the result is the following: a-very-large-title-that-should-have-let-the-user-to-truncate-the-slag-name-in-order-to-avoid-creating-a-humongous-url.txt 16:47:38 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: ok so far 16:47:47 <ToApolytoXaos> the metadata is inside that .txt file 16:47:52 <ralsina> Yes 16:48:05 <ToApolytoXaos> if I edit the slag, it would create a shorter .html file 16:48:09 <ToApolytoXaos> inside output/ 16:48:23 <ralsina> yes 16:48:30 <ralsina> slug, not slag, but yes :-) 16:48:37 <ToApolytoXaos> ...what about this railroad .txt file 16:48:48 <ToApolytoXaos> slag, slug, snail, you name it lol 16:48:54 <ralsina> mv posts/a-very-* posts/foo.txt 16:49:27 <ralsina> If the problem is the file name is too long, rename the file :-) 16:49:33 <ToApolytoXaos> that's why it would be convenient to allow the user to create a short .txt based on slug from inside the new_post command 16:49:46 <ralsina> nikola new_post -t short-slug 16:49:59 <ralsina> And then when you actually create the content, give it whatever title you want 16:52:40 <ToApolytoXaos> OK, that makes sense of course 16:54:57 <ralsina> Personally even having to provide the title at the beginning is weird 16:55:06 <ralsina> much less the URL where I want the content to live 16:55:27 <ralsina> I would love to find a way to have things written without title, and then at some point "name them" 16:55:48 <ToApolytoXaos> an example? 16:58:32 <ToApolytoXaos> well, the simplest thing that came in mind is a tmp location inside a Nikola project that would held draft files with a sequential number in front of them and at any moment a user could switch it to a post or a page with a create_metatag command 17:00:25 * ToApolytoXaos meant metadata 17:02:00 <ralsina> yes, but it's just more confusing 17:02:44 <ralsina> So, I just use anything as title "Draft sept 28" or whatever, and then change title/slug/filename when ready to publish 17:04:27 <ToApolytoXaos> OK, how about make it generate a basic .meta file that would contain the date that this draft has been created 17:04:52 <ralsina> .meta files are to be avoided unless you are writing a format broken enough to need them. 17:04:58 <ralsina> Worst idea ever. 17:05:22 <ToApolytoXaos> but it's suited in draft's idea based on what you said before 17:05:39 <ralsina> Well, worst idea was the old-old metadata format, where you used a .meta file that had no labels for its fields 17:05:55 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: could be 17:06:18 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: but it's just a minor annoyance, and I don't think the "fix" is much bette 17:06:21 <ralsina> better* 17:06:40 <ralsina> There are tons of things Nikola "could" do but doesn't because I suspect it would be just confusing :-) 17:07:27 <ToApolytoXaos> it depends 17:07:49 <ToApolytoXaos> but for sure, your idea is plausible 17:08:15 <ToApolytoXaos> even if draft was a .rst file, it should have added *only* a date metadata 17:08:34 <ToApolytoXaos> this way it would be easier to move to posts or pages 17:08:39 <ToApolytoXaos> but that's just a theory 17:08:56 <ralsina> you can move posts to pages by just moving the file. The other way around you need to add a date. 17:09:20 <ToApolytoXaos> yeah I know 17:09:32 <ToApolytoXaos> I meant for the draft concept 17:09:37 <ToApolytoXaos> based on what you said before 17:39:16 <ChrisWarrick> ralsina: What do you think about #2502? Isn’t it going too far in your opinion, at the same time not really implementing what it claims it does? 17:39:30 <ralsina> ChrisWarrick: looking... 17:39:42 <ChrisWarrick> ralsina: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/pull/2502 17:40:40 <ralsina> hmmm 17:40:50 <ralsina> I am not sure I understand what that PR does 17:41:34 <ralsina> So, it passes the folder from POSTS as destination_base 17:42:23 <ralsina> lines 166:173 of post.py just confuse me 17:43:03 <ralsina> we get different folders for each language because they rely on metadata 17:44:17 <ralsina> And then when calculating the destination path, we get it from there 17:44:17 <ralsina> So, what happens if I don'thave a path metadata? 17:44:17 <ralsina> I get "self.folder_relative" which means ... ??? 17:44:55 <ChrisWarrick> relative path to what used to be destination dir before 17:48:59 <ralsina> eek 17:49:15 <ralsina> naming things is hard 17:49:51 <ralsina> I would reject it as is. Instead of throwing code at us and then having to figure it out, a feature should start as an idea of how the user would use it. 17:50:04 <ralsina> I'll put that in a review comment 17:51:40 <ChrisWarrick> Shall we close this? 17:53:26 <KwBot> [nikola] Kwpolska opened issue #2513: Add an option to `nikola new_post` to create yyyy/mm/dd directory structures https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/issues/2513 17:59:36 <ralsina> ChrisWarrick: I don't know 17:59:48 <ChrisWarrick> Let’s leave it open for now 17:59:55 <ralsina> I don't want to be discouraging, it can still (maybe) be turned into a useful thing 18:00:08 <ralsina> felix has a tendency to write code I can't read, tho 18:00:10 <ChrisWarrick> Or maybe it can’t 18:00:17 <ChrisWarrick> you and me both 18:00:19 <ralsina> Reason not to merge it :-) 18:05:44 <ToApolytoXaos> ralsina: when I first started asking questions about certain portions of unreadable code and you said "I don't know; it's not my code", was it felix's code? 18:06:04 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: may be! Or maybe not 18:06:09 <ChrisWarrick> run git blame 18:06:09 <ralsina> I have written code I can't read 18:06:15 <ToApolytoXaos> oh my... 18:06:20 <ChrisWarrick> where's this code? 18:06:32 <ToApolytoXaos> ChrisWarrick: let me check my history 18:11:46 <ChrisWarrick> ToApolytoXaos: TranslatableSetting is my work. 18:12:29 <ralsina> I just never had to fix it, so I never learned it 18:12:29 <ToApolytoXaos> I can't remember which code was it (and I'm still looking for it), but it was a code with single character loop variables 18:12:45 <ralsina> TSettings rings a bell, it was probably related 18:12:53 <ChrisWarrick> ToApolytoXaos: As ralsina told you, a defaultdict has a function that returns default values for unknown fields 18:12:53 <ralsina> and I *did* figure it out quickly ;-) 18:13:19 <ChrisWarrick> https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/blob/master/nikola/utils.py#L331 was the link 18:13:48 <ToApolytoXaos> no, not the lambda 18:13:59 <ChrisWarrick> format, is it? 18:14:03 <ChrisWarrick> or langformat? 18:18:07 <ChrisWarrick> You see, TranslatableSettings are a bit tricky, mainly because they used to emulate strings (they don’t anymore). 18:19:48 <ChrisWarrick> What langformat is supposed to do is to take a dict of {language: (format_args, format_kwargs)} and translate each language value. 18:22:52 <ralsina> ChrisWarrick: I am going to be relatively close to you next month! 18:23:36 <ralsina> ChrisWarrick: a mere 1500km +- 1000 I guess 18:24:35 <ToApolytoXaos> I liked the "relatively close" part 18:24:50 <ToApolytoXaos> for a seminar ralsina? 18:25:02 <ChrisWarrick> ToApolytoXaos: It also needs to do some magic to figure out the default string to translate (d). In the next loop (f, a), we are searching for languages that might be hiding in formats. And finally, it loops through all languages, gets the string to translate, and does some other magic to get translations in the end. Not sure how this works; probably never used. 18:25:02 <ralsina> well, I live in a large country. 1000km is like, a weekend trip :-) 18:25:19 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: work sprint, almost 2 weeks in The Hague 18:26:02 <ToApolytoXaos> nice 18:26:04 <ToApolytoXaos> ChrisWarrick: I see 18:26:08 <ToApolytoXaos> that's good to know 18:27:21 <ChrisWarrick> ralsina: over 800 km in a straight line. Closer to 900/1000 if you felt like driving there. 18:27:34 <ralsina> Well, I don't drive 18:27:50 <ralsina> Plus I will be locked in a golden cage with the rest of the developers 18:28:25 <ToApolytoXaos> lol ralsina 18:28:48 <ToApolytoXaos> sounds like a fun party 18:28:49 <ralsina> Well, actually it's a Marriott, so not GOLDEN but not bad 18:29:08 <ChrisWarrick> Only 6 hours by plane+train! (Don’t bother) 18:29:13 <ToApolytoXaos> in what languages are you going to be coding in? 18:29:30 <ralsina> My current project at work are ~70/30 python/go 18:30:02 <ToApolytoXaos> ChrisWarrick: have no worries; I will be waiting ralsina at the airport and give him my best horse! 18:30:04 <ToApolytoXaos> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Dutch_dwarf_horse.jpg 18:30:11 <ToApolytoXaos> he will there with you in no time 18:30:49 <ralsina> We have awesome tiny horses here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falabella 18:32:21 <ToApolytoXaos> wow...beautiful horse 18:33:50 <ralsina> My son's horse is what's called a "petiso", which is a short horse, and it's about twice the size of those :-) 18:35:01 <ToApolytoXaos> cool :) 18:35:12 <ToApolytoXaos> but of course, only a LLAMA is fabulous! https://imgur.com/gallery/OXTKD 18:36:32 <ralsina> well, you can't ride a llama. But it can carry your golf clubs! 18:37:00 <ToApolytoXaos> :D lol 18:37:03 <ralsina> https://ellisphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/2009_ellis_photos-321.jpg 18:37:17 <ralsina> Also, that fabulous animal was not a llama, that was a vicuña :-) 18:37:31 <ralsina> Well, I think 18:37:33 <ToApolytoXaos> hahahaha :D that's so cool 18:38:00 <ralsina> It's surprisingluy common! https://www.google.com.ar/search?q=llama+caddie&tbm=isch&imgil=iAOVa7jU-YxdMM%253A%253BtAksJHF4U0e7EM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.richardellisblog.com%25252F%25253Fp%2525253D154&source=iu&pf=m&fir=iAOVa7jU-YxdMM%253A%252CtAksJHF4U0e7EM%252C_&usg=__8vfqF_m9c3XcQWyrLCtYhjUqMdY%3D&biw=1237&bih=660&ved=0ahUKEwiN9brK1q3PAhWIxpAKHf4hArIQyjcIOA&ei=w2rpV82HA4iNwwT-w4iQCw#imgrc=iAOVa7jU-YxdMM%3A 18:38:06 <ralsina> sheesh google 18:38:43 <ToApolytoXaos> to be honest looks like alpaca 18:39:27 <ralsina> could be. Damn camelids. 18:39:51 <ToApolytoXaos> :) 18:40:19 <ToApolytoXaos> by the way ralsina, how does maté tastes? 18:40:52 <ralsina> Well, if you never had it before, and are not used to herbal teas, you are going to hate it with the intensity of 1000 suns 18:41:22 <ralsina> Specially if you follow an argentinian's instructions to "drink it properly" which means without sugar because we are a bit of an asshole in general. 18:41:57 <ralsina> BUt it's temporary, after a while you get used to it, and it's the best caffeine delivery system available other than IV drip 18:42:07 <ToApolytoXaos> yeah, that's the best way to consume a hot herbal tea 18:42:10 <ToApolytoXaos> without honey or sugar 18:42:27 <ToApolytoXaos> it contains caffeine in it? -_- 18:42:36 <ralsina> it's ... a strong, fairly bitter tea :-) 18:42:42 <ralsina> And it has some caffeine 18:43:03 <ralsina> The way we drink it, you may end up drinking 1 liter in a morning. So a little caffeine becomes a lot of caffeine. 18:43:18 <ralsina> Other teas are not usually sold in kilo bags. 18:44:15 <ToApolytoXaos> I see 18:44:25 <ToApolytoXaos> I prefer collecting my own herbs from nature 18:44:34 <ToApolytoXaos> ...whatever it has been left 18:48:43 <ToApolytoXaos> oh, now that I remember ralsina 18:48:58 <ToApolytoXaos> can you find uncleaned almonds over there? 18:49:08 <ToApolytoXaos> with their shells? 18:49:32 <ralsina> sure 18:49:36 <ToApolytoXaos> awesome! 18:49:36 <ralsina> but why? :-D 18:49:56 <ToApolytoXaos> clean a few, take the shells, boil them and sieve the juice 18:50:11 <ToApolytoXaos> drink that juice day and night 18:50:15 <ToApolytoXaos> a mug would do 18:50:25 <ToApolytoXaos> it will regulate your blood pressure and your heart bits 18:50:31 <ToApolytoXaos> *beats 18:50:44 * ToApolytoXaos says "darn English words -_-" 18:52:00 <ralsina> I take drugs for that 18:52:40 <ralsina> Either almonds have an active principle and I should not mix them with the drugs my doctor gave me, or they don't and they would do nothing. 18:54:03 <ToApolytoXaos> so you trust drugs more than nature itself? 18:54:07 <ToApolytoXaos> lol ooooookay 18:54:56 <ralsina> of course 18:55:13 <ralsina> herbal remedies are, best case, drugs 18:55:28 <ralsina> worst case, not drugs :-) 18:55:42 <ChrisWarrick> speaking of yerba mate, suggestions for a newcomer? 18:56:06 <ToApolytoXaos> sure thing 18:56:21 <ToApolytoXaos> what do you want to try ChrisWarrick? 18:56:27 <ChrisWarrick> dunno 18:56:31 <ChrisWarrick> hence “newcomer” 18:56:49 <ChrisWarrick> I’m kinda getting bored by cheap “English” teas from the supermarket. 18:57:02 <ToApolytoXaos> you could try something simple, like boiling some anise 18:57:03 <ralsina> ChrisWarrick: well, you can start with mate in a bag and make it like tea 18:57:15 <ToApolytoXaos> anise is very nice for us computer users 18:57:39 <ToApolytoXaos> boil it well, sieve it, and let it cool for 2-3 minutes while in the mug 18:57:47 <ralsina> best thing ever is getting one of these: http://mla-d1-p.mlstatic.com/practi-mate-listo-autocebante-camionero-automatico-500cc-11714-MLA20048506516_022014-F.jpg?square=false 18:58:03 <ralsina> I use one similar (larger) for mate but I expect it works for any tea 18:58:29 <ralsina> basically, it's a cup full of leaves, and a thermos full of hot water. you sip, that makes more water get to the tea 18:58:44 <ralsina> So, if you take a sip every 30 / 45 seconds, it's infinite tea 18:58:56 <ToApolytoXaos> I would like to get one of those traditional ones, but I will be looking like Popeye the sailor man 18:59:22 <ralsina> ToApolytoXaos: oh, there's dozens of varieties 18:59:34 <ToApolytoXaos> yeah, I have found a few dozens online 18:59:42 <ralsina> For example, this is called a mate pampeano: http://almadecampo.com.ar/almadecampo/images/DSC_0414.JPG 18:59:57 <ralsina> You put the yerba in the middle, and pour the hot water down the holes on the side 19:00:16 <ToApolytoXaos> yerba? you mean the herb? 19:00:19 <ralsina> makes it harder for you to "wash" the leaves 19:00:20 <ralsina> yep 19:00:23 <ToApolytoXaos> nice 19:00:52 <ralsina> basically, if you put too hot water, or too much water, or water all over the yerba, you get one very strong sip and nothing else 19:01:23 <ralsina> A good "cebador" (the person making the mate) can make one serving of yerba last one hour or so 19:02:15 <ralsina> If you guys are ever down here I'll show you around. Have a guest room and everything. 19:07:04 <ToApolytoXaos> nice. If I ever again get into an airplane, I will let you know ralsina 19:09:26 <ToApolytoXaos> ChrisWarrick: the simplest thing you can make yourself is 2-3 dried cloves with a cinnamon stick, boil them, sieve them carefully, and drink the tea. enjoy! 19:37:49 <ralsina> q 19:37:51 <ralsina> oops 19:41:16 <x1101> ralsina: this is _not_ vim. Much as I wish it were 19:42:01 <ToApolytoXaos> where's the colon then x1101? ;) 19:42:31 <ToApolytoXaos> of course it depends on the mode 19:49:21 <ralsina> Actually, I was trying to autocomplete a chrome tab :-) 20:03:25 <ToApolytoXaos> ah okay :) 20:48:07 <ToApolytoXaos> ralsina: after many years of using Python, what was the coolest thing you have ever seen in live action that blew your mind?
